This is fucking gaslighting, Hugo. You place all the burden on the people who will be most hurt/affected by this and imply that they are out of line for not accepting it and moving on. In a world where the hateful are allowed to flourish without consequence and use their power to hurt others, it should not fall to the hated to accept the…
This is fucking gaslighting, Hugo. You place all the burden on the people who will be most hurt/affected by this and imply that they are out of line for not accepting it and moving on. In a world where the hateful are allowed to flourish without consequence and use their power to hurt others, it should not fall to the hated to accept their lot and embrace the people who hate them. That will not bring peace. That will not make things better. That will only allow the awful to be as awful as they want to be. It is true that we live in different worlds, but that does not make them equal. The trajectory of the world the right is pursuing in one in which only a tiny minority will be happy. That is not okay. That is not something good people should just accept. The right believes they should be able to behave like assholes without being treated like an asshole, which is great if you want to live in a world where everyone is an asshole. Yet, you’d argue that the people who advocate for consideration, empathy and kindness are the real enemy because they can no longer tolerate the hateful thoughtlessness and selfishness of those who believe they should be the only ones with any power to control the world.
I made it clear people get to feel what they feel. The question is not whether they are right to feel that way. The question whether that contempt -- justified or not -- is efficacious or in fact making things worse. You cannot shame people into transforming. So if it makes you feel good to declare everyone who voted for Trump to be an asshole, that's fine! Just understand that your rage is not doing anything to bring the world you long for one inch closer, and in fact, is having the exact opposite effect.
Civility isn't a luxury. It's fundamentally utilitarian. But it's not mandatory.
“Don’t you understand? If you’re not nice and polite to your abuser, they’ll just stay mean and abusive. Instead, treat them with civility and maybe they’ll organically stop being abusive even though there’s now actually no consequence for their behaviour.”
Allan, I think there's a colossal distinction between an actual abuser and tens of millions of voters whom you've never met. There's a difference between an abusive partner and an uncle you endure for two hours once a year, for that matter. At some point, declaring that every disagreement is abuse -- and that expressing certain political viewpoints constitutes hate speech -- involves a total category collapse.
Go ahead and impose those consequences. Tell me how they're working.
Agree to disagree. The consequences of voting for a regime whose entire platform was based on scapegoating immigrants, promises of mass deportation, transphobia, white suprematism and overt misogyny will be real and they will hurt real people. I don’t make a distinction between the person who assaults my friend and the person who cheers that person on as they do it. At least a little bit of pushback and rudeness will make that uncle at least think about his actions. Treating him as though his opinions are fine and normal will only lead to more of the same. You can’t fight hatred with kindness if the other person literally hates kindness.
This is fucking gaslighting, Hugo. You place all the burden on the people who will be most hurt/affected by this and imply that they are out of line for not accepting it and moving on. In a world where the hateful are allowed to flourish without consequence and use their power to hurt others, it should not fall to the hated to accept their lot and embrace the people who hate them. That will not bring peace. That will not make things better. That will only allow the awful to be as awful as they want to be. It is true that we live in different worlds, but that does not make them equal. The trajectory of the world the right is pursuing in one in which only a tiny minority will be happy. That is not okay. That is not something good people should just accept. The right believes they should be able to behave like assholes without being treated like an asshole, which is great if you want to live in a world where everyone is an asshole. Yet, you’d argue that the people who advocate for consideration, empathy and kindness are the real enemy because they can no longer tolerate the hateful thoughtlessness and selfishness of those who believe they should be the only ones with any power to control the world.
I made it clear people get to feel what they feel. The question is not whether they are right to feel that way. The question whether that contempt -- justified or not -- is efficacious or in fact making things worse. You cannot shame people into transforming. So if it makes you feel good to declare everyone who voted for Trump to be an asshole, that's fine! Just understand that your rage is not doing anything to bring the world you long for one inch closer, and in fact, is having the exact opposite effect.
Civility isn't a luxury. It's fundamentally utilitarian. But it's not mandatory.
“Don’t you understand? If you’re not nice and polite to your abuser, they’ll just stay mean and abusive. Instead, treat them with civility and maybe they’ll organically stop being abusive even though there’s now actually no consequence for their behaviour.”
Allan, I think there's a colossal distinction between an actual abuser and tens of millions of voters whom you've never met. There's a difference between an abusive partner and an uncle you endure for two hours once a year, for that matter. At some point, declaring that every disagreement is abuse -- and that expressing certain political viewpoints constitutes hate speech -- involves a total category collapse.
Go ahead and impose those consequences. Tell me how they're working.
Agree to disagree. The consequences of voting for a regime whose entire platform was based on scapegoating immigrants, promises of mass deportation, transphobia, white suprematism and overt misogyny will be real and they will hurt real people. I don’t make a distinction between the person who assaults my friend and the person who cheers that person on as they do it. At least a little bit of pushback and rudeness will make that uncle at least think about his actions. Treating him as though his opinions are fine and normal will only lead to more of the same. You can’t fight hatred with kindness if the other person literally hates kindness.