I can compartmentalize my feelings towards an artists work and his or her social sins for the most part. There are some acts I can't forgive that would not allow me to separate the two primarily the hurting of children. I keep reminding myself that we live in a world where an accusation carries as much weight as having done the deed itself. I judge carefully.
As a proud democrat whose party favors being kinder to people who have served time I find it difficult to understand how that kindness isn't granted to the "cancelled". Who decides when they've paid their dues?
"where the spirit meets the bone...When you find out the secret they could not tell you? That revelation does not constitute your license to bail." Yes. I could not agree more. You rightly distinguish between loyalty and gratitude, and condoning; of course there are things so vile one must terminate the relationship - but, as you say, that doesn't cancel the debt. Very well said, Hugo, and brave, too, because you're going to hear from a lot of people who don't understand the distinction.
I strongly disagree on this. Some acts are so heinous that any friendship debt I have with someone is going to be canceled. I always enjoy reading you, even when I disagree.
Hmmm. Slightly Confucian sentiments, though even Confucius acknowledges there are limits—even to familial loyalty.
I’d agree that love and accountability can and should be able to coexist, and we do a very poor job of practicing and respecting that outside of parenting children. Lucinda Williams is a great example of walking the line.*
On the other hand, what also doesn’t exist is a recognition that your behavior will reflect on your associates, and some responsibility exists to not put your friends and colleagues in the situation where they must choose between allegiance and honor.
I feel conflicted on this subject, given how abusing women rarely has any consequences— it does not affect a man’s career, popularity, or income— unless he decides to self-punish for a decade for consensual violations with very little power differential.
You can abuse women and get a Nobel Prize, be a celebrated spiritual leader, artist, CEO, Olympic athlete, or even President of the United States, twice.
The only recourse is social pressure from public opinion and association contagion, which may not be ideal, but justice, uh, finds a way. I am loathe to condemn it and call it virtue.
——
*Dante, not so much— especially comparing the disavowal of friendship to betraying a benefactor. Betraying friendship is higher up in his circles of sin, this bottom of the bottom is more severe than even betraying immediate family, and for Brutus, includes betraying Rome itself (many people throughout history have questioned Dante’s placement of the betrayal of Julius Caesar on the same level as Judas’ betrayal of Christ.)
I can compartmentalize my feelings towards an artists work and his or her social sins for the most part. There are some acts I can't forgive that would not allow me to separate the two primarily the hurting of children. I keep reminding myself that we live in a world where an accusation carries as much weight as having done the deed itself. I judge carefully.
As a proud democrat whose party favors being kinder to people who have served time I find it difficult to understand how that kindness isn't granted to the "cancelled". Who decides when they've paid their dues?
To many on the left, even asking that question is an unnecessary deflection from the victims.
"where the spirit meets the bone...When you find out the secret they could not tell you? That revelation does not constitute your license to bail." Yes. I could not agree more. You rightly distinguish between loyalty and gratitude, and condoning; of course there are things so vile one must terminate the relationship - but, as you say, that doesn't cancel the debt. Very well said, Hugo, and brave, too, because you're going to hear from a lot of people who don't understand the distinction.
Amen!! 👏 Well said ❤️
I strongly disagree on this. Some acts are so heinous that any friendship debt I have with someone is going to be canceled. I always enjoy reading you, even when I disagree.
Totally okay! We get to disagree even on major issues. A lot of us have different definitions of friendship and that’s all good.
Wait, what sex cult arrests happened last year? NXVIM was like five years ago. I’m always interested in sex cults and regret having missed one!
Best I can do is say the arrests were in June 2023. I really cannot comment publicly or name names because of search engines and so forth.
I love this, Hugo, and love you for writing it. Thank you.
Hmmm. Slightly Confucian sentiments, though even Confucius acknowledges there are limits—even to familial loyalty.
I’d agree that love and accountability can and should be able to coexist, and we do a very poor job of practicing and respecting that outside of parenting children. Lucinda Williams is a great example of walking the line.*
On the other hand, what also doesn’t exist is a recognition that your behavior will reflect on your associates, and some responsibility exists to not put your friends and colleagues in the situation where they must choose between allegiance and honor.
I feel conflicted on this subject, given how abusing women rarely has any consequences— it does not affect a man’s career, popularity, or income— unless he decides to self-punish for a decade for consensual violations with very little power differential.
You can abuse women and get a Nobel Prize, be a celebrated spiritual leader, artist, CEO, Olympic athlete, or even President of the United States, twice.
The only recourse is social pressure from public opinion and association contagion, which may not be ideal, but justice, uh, finds a way. I am loathe to condemn it and call it virtue.
——
*Dante, not so much— especially comparing the disavowal of friendship to betraying a benefactor. Betraying friendship is higher up in his circles of sin, this bottom of the bottom is more severe than even betraying immediate family, and for Brutus, includes betraying Rome itself (many people throughout history have questioned Dante’s placement of the betrayal of Julius Caesar on the same level as Judas’ betrayal of Christ.)
Brutus' failure was not disloyalty to a friend.
A bad man who treats you well perhaps deserves your empathy - but not loyalty above your other duties.